Tonight’s Saddleback Church Forum on the Presidency, at which both John McCain and Barack Obama appeared, is being called by some the opening round in the general election of 2008. If so, McCain is ahead, 1-0.
As much as I dislike resorting to sports analogies, I kept getting baseball-analogy impressions while watching the event. First, Obama – - yes, he was smooth, articulate, and all of those things. Yet I noticed that he kept affecting a posture of leaning his head to the right, and away from Pastor Warren. This gave me the impression of a batter leaning away from the pitches, afraid of the inside fastball, wary of the curve, trying to foul off enough pitches to work his way to first base with a walk. And his answers gave me the same impression – - a lot of foul balls, an occasional single, a double off the wall, but nothing hit out of the park. And more than one strike, as when he gave as his only example of working across party lines the ethics bill sponsored by McCain and Obama – - that one blew right by him, since he appears to have forgotten that he backed out on McCain on that bill in order to stay with the Democratic Party majority. Steeeee-rike!
Obama did not do badly, but there was no charisma, no excitement; nothing more than a good talker answering, more or less as expected, questions that he should have known were coming.
McCain, on the other hand, stood in at the plate and kept hitting line drives. Oh, sure, he had some fat patches, like the question about his most difficult decision; I could have answered that one for him. But he kept his head erect, he stayed alert, he looked good, and he hit line drives. Lots of singles, some doubles, and the question about sanctity of life, when is a baby entitled to the rights of a human being, he hit right out of the park. Another home run on the “flip-flop” question (offshore drilling). McCain looked like a pro, unafraid of the pitches and ready to hit.
But, having said all of that, there is an overriding reason why I believe McCain took this match: one of the problems that a significant number of voters have had with John is his age. At Saddleback, John McCain looked nothing like the picture the Democrats want to paint, i.e., the picture of a tired, confused old man; on the contrary, going with less rest and preparation time than Obama, John McCain looked vigorous and alert and on top of his game. Regardless of specific responses to specific questions, that, in my opinion, is the impression that many viewers will have taken away from this match.
McCain 1, Obama 0.
August 16, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Sadly, I agree. Obama will dip and McCain will have a bump in the polls as a result of this.
August 16, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Thanks for your post. I was unable to watch because of a special meeting at church.
From what I’ve read here and in several other places, it seems that it wasn’t just McCain 1, Obama 0–unless, of course, you mean that’s the final score.
And from all the posts I’ve read, John McCain firmly established his bona fides as president.
But Barack Obama or whatever his real name may be? It sounds as if he was slick but still empty. And that it showed embarrasingly that he was and remains out of his league.
And his “above his pay grade” statement about when human life begins? Sadly, as a putative Christian, which I do not think he is–at best, and this is an opinion others have of him, he is a CINO, Christian in name only–he should have an answer for that.
And he should know that he cannot find, nor will he find, support in the Holy Bible for the murder of the unborn or just-born.
From what I’ve read, this night backfired for Obama and was a more huge success for McCain than perhaps even he imagined.
Imagine that: Character and experience and wisdom triumph over emptiness and inexperience and foolishness.
August 17, 2008 at 12:01 am
[...] The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 – A McCain Democrat’s Journal Tonight’s Saddleback Church Forum on the Presidency, at which both John McCain and Barack Obama appeared, is being called by some the opening round in the general election of 2008. If so, McCain is ahead, 1-0. [...]
August 17, 2008 at 1:11 am
McCain may have won the battle but I think he lost the war, a lot of polls have shown that voters don’t know McCain’s stance on Abortions, they think he’s pro choice, polls have shown that when the knowledge of his real stance is informed to voters his numbers fall. McCain may have won the night (I don’t entirely agree on that, since I saw Obama’s answers as showing a man who has given the topics a great deal of thoght while McCain’s seemed to be standard conservative rhetoric), but by revealing his true stance so strongly he may suffer in the bigger fight.
August 17, 2008 at 1:31 am
John McCain is weasel poison – a genuine man versus a weasel. No other Rebublican in the primaries could do as well in a match-up with Obama. McCain will not do as well against Hillary if she manages to wrest the nomination from the weasel in Denver. Hillary is a wolf, not a weasel. But I don’t think she will get the nomination, because it would seriously hurt the party. I suspect that savvy democrats are already resigned to losing the presidency and know they will have to make do with the House and Senate for 4 years.
August 17, 2008 at 1:34 am
Mccain continues to pander to the audience he faces. He acted like a warmongerer relating critical issues to national security. He also made a big mistake in claiming he was so pro-life, i mean lets face it america is a pro-choice nation. He looked so un-educated and bellicose in his responses it wasn’t even funny. And boy did he ever appeal to pity with his war stories “vote for me i got tortured.” he certainly wont get a bump in the polls for this
August 17, 2008 at 1:37 am
for god sakes the author of this article is indicating that mccain won based on obama’s physical posture during the forum! what a horrible aspect to focus you analysis on!
August 17, 2008 at 1:49 am
McCain showed tonight, because of his age, that he has the wisdom to know what he thinks and the experience to back up what he says.
Obama showed that, like Hillary said, he is all fluff.
August 17, 2008 at 1:53 am
mike: It’s hard to take you seriously. Do you really think that body language means nothing? Stay away from used car salesmen.
August 17, 2008 at 1:56 am
Bigfoot Tinmouth: The Hillary Factor is perplexing. Would she like to wrest the nomination away from Obama? Yes. Will she be in a position to do it at the convention? She might. But if she does, then what happens to the black vote? Walk time, and now Hillary faces an uphill battle. So, yes, the best move for the Democrats is to stick with Obama.
August 17, 2008 at 2:37 am
HERE ARE MY SUMMARY THOUGHTS FOR SOUND BITES FROM THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM:
SENATOR OBAMA LOOKED LIKE HE WAS AUDITIONING FOR:
“EQUVICATOR IN CHIEF”
SENATOR MCCAIN LOOKED LIKE HE
WAS RUNNING FOR:
“COMMANDER IN CHIEF”
August 17, 2008 at 3:31 am
Crimminy!
We need to stop propagating the “smooth”, “eloquent”, “articulate” farce that is the “style” of Obama.
He cannot lay claim to any of those off teleprompter. And it makes no sense to credit him with those adjectives when he doublespeaks and when he’s not doublespeaking, he’s saying “ummm….uh…..”
August 17, 2008 at 5:14 am
I disagree. Obama came across as a sincere Christian, and McCain came across as someone who probably belongs to a church, but who doesn’t actually think at all about his supposed faith, which is why he’s so uncomfortable talking about it. In general, McCain is an intellectual adolescent, sitting in the back of the classroom, making fun of whatever he doesn’t understand. He’s politically astute enough not to make fun of Christianity in public–but I don’t think he actually understands it, or, sadly, believes it.
August 17, 2008 at 6:48 am
McCain?
Are you people serious?
What, endless WAR and $4/gallon gas isn’t high enough for you yet?
Enough with the neo-cons already…Turn the page America, seriously!
August 17, 2008 at 7:32 am
Hmm, blatant partisan expressing that their candidate is ‘winning’ without citing any unbiased reactions.
If that’s all it takes to win, I’m sure you’ve already won in your own head, and that’s all you care about, right?
August 17, 2008 at 7:59 am
The mainstream media has frankly put the security of our great country at risk with an Obama coronation media like CNN & MSNBC is the only way Obama managed to steal the Dem nom. It’s extremely concerning that so many Americans could care less about who their candidate really is?? simply amazing and frankly scarey.
PLEASE WATCH AND SHARE WITH EVERYONE ASAP
As expected Obama did his usual terrible showing at Saddleback church lastnight, now we understand why he is scared to debate John Mccain, just as he was with Hillary…
Its a shame that the media has lost the presidency for Dems…
The Hon. James David Manning, PhD.
“Last 100 Days” …
http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr07-28-08.html
http://www.dontvoteobama.net
August 17, 2008 at 8:43 am
Did anyone else pick up Obama referring to Pastor Warren as “Pastor Wright”. Pull the tape and about half way through Rick asking Obama a question that he responded with Rev Wright.
Someone check it out.
August 17, 2008 at 9:11 am
It was obviously a McCain win. BHO looked weak in comparison.
August 17, 2008 at 9:18 am
BHO seemed out of touch, simply responding with long winded answers, while McCain actively engaged with Rick Warren.
What will Democrats do in Denver? Nominate someone that we all know will not step up to the plate against McCain?
Please delegates, vote for a Democrat who can win this November!!!! Hillary.
August 17, 2008 at 9:37 am
Oh, Thanks! Really interesting. Greets.
August 17, 2008 at 10:04 am
Need to stop overrating senator Obama as some intellectual. Without a prepared speech in front of 100,000 partisans the man sometimes has a problem putting together a coherent sentence. In a setting like this McCain will wipe the floor with him every time.
August 17, 2008 at 10:58 am
If Conservative Christians honestly believe that Obama is closer to their values than John McCain, they really are clueless. Of course they have always been attracted to those glib televangelists shouting out well-cadenced phrases. And Obama kearned well from his mentor, Rev. Wright. But his religion is about a 1/2 inch deep.
August 17, 2008 at 11:25 am
Oh, Thanks! Really amazing. Greets.
August 17, 2008 at 11:55 am
The majority of Americans DO NOT agree with Obama’s views where he supports not only partial birth abortion but also letting a child that survives an abortion die. He did his usual fancy dance steps of not admitting that. No Christian can support abortion. We have a commandment for that. Barack abuses the word when he claims to be Christian. It is all smoke and mirrors with him and that is exactly why he is not way ahead, the public is starting to figure that out. His record does not support most of the issues he claims he stands for…it is that simple.
August 17, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Recovering, Vote Democratic ‘08!, EEAnderson, & axt113:
Partisan bickering aside, do you have anything to say about the point of the article, i.e. – - “There is an overriding reason why I believe McCain took this match: one of the problems that a significant number of voters have had with John is his age. At Saddleback, John McCain looked nothing like the picture the Democrats want to paint, i.e., the picture of a tired, confused old man; on the contrary, going with less rest and preparation time than Obama, John McCain looked vigorous and alert and on top of his game. Regardless of specific responses to specific questions, that, in my opinion, is the impression that many viewers will have taken away from this match.”
I continue to be amazed that the candidate who purports to be post-partisan AND his followers engage in a constant stream of sniping and cat-calls, and appear to be incapable of joining in any dialog.
August 17, 2008 at 12:59 pm
McCain took this round because he spoke clear and Obama studder thu his answers like he was hunting for answers that he didn’t know. Obama still refused to tell the American people where he stands on abortion, where as Sen. John McCain did! Obama’s top advisors on World decisions..his grandmother? Anyone in their right mind can see that John McCain came out on top as expected.
August 17, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I don’t think any genuine, Christ following Christian will ever support Obama. In Obama’s own words, here are some of things Obama has said and believe:
1 – Senator Obama believes there are so many paths to the same place – There are many roads to God – Jesus is NOT the ONLY way
2 – Senator Obama believes “Sermon on Mount Justifies Same-Sex Unions”
3- Senator Obama believes that No one will go to hell – There is NO heaven or Hell
Please visit http://john14network.com/
for more.
August 17, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Obama’s ‘above my paygrade’ response is equivalent to voting ‘Present’ in the Illinois state senate. He failed to engage because he has no substance from which to draw.
Obama needs to realize failing to engage is not an option when the responsibility for American lives requires real decisions and the courage to stand by those decisions.
August 17, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Child rights- scientifically on conception
theologically at birth.
August 17, 2008 at 2:00 pm
One element that I heard an awful lot during Obama’s answers was the “me factor.” For a man who has been pegged as an egomaniac, he sure spent a lot of time talking about how his ego admittedly gets in the way. It’s apparently his excuse for the drugs, the alcohol and he referred to his struggles with ego a number of times within his answers. While I’m certain that he meant it in a Christian way (ie, I need to put God first), the mentions of his ego did not sit well with me one bit.
Also, Obama’s “answer” (and I use that term loosely) to abortion, stem cell research and other hot topics were non-answers. His comment about not being able to address a tough issue because “it’s above my paygrade” was the dumbest thing he’s ever said. Gosh, if he can’t talk about abortion without feeling over his head, how the heck is he going to deal with security issues and world crises?
I will say that I thought Obama did okay, but not nearly as well as I had expected. I truly expected him to blow the roof off that place because of his comfort in speaking about religion, and he was, at best, average. Obama has an opinion: it’s just not the one these listeners wanted to hear. I would have respected Obama MUCH more if he had voiced a firm answer rather than pandered to the crowd. Obama had a lot to say in each answer, but when you strip away the fancy words and examine the message, what did he really say and what did we really learn about his positions? Nothing.
McCain, on the other hand, did much better than I expected. While he is getting raked over the coals by some for not seeming “Christian enough”, I think the message of his answers was loud and clear: I am a Christian man guided by Christian principals and I try to lead a Christian life. He may not spout off Biblical quotes or toss the “Jesus” word into his answers, but that does not make him any less of a Christian. He seemed comfortable, he injected humor, personal stories and his answers were consise yet passionate.
When the entire night is taken into consideration–rather than one answer or comment taken out of context–I think he won the exchange last night, much to the chagrin of Obama fans. The personalities of these two men are polar opposite, that’s for sure.
While I commend Obama’s “thoughfulness” and whatnot, I don’t want a soft people-pleaser in the office. And the more I hear from Obama, that’s exactly what I think will happen. He’s too young to have his own firm convictions, so he spends WAY too much time listening to others in order to figure out what he thinks. If Obama had more experience and clear convictions, he could have actually answered the questions rather than leaving things so open-ended.
August 17, 2008 at 2:49 pm
MCCAIN HIT A HOME RUN HANDS DOWN! he is pro-choice he will defend the defenseless and innocent!
he is a defender of Americas freedoms and liberties! he would give his life for his country-and almost did! he holds strong the American Moral Values and Convictions.
If you watched the Rev.Warren forum last night 8/16/08 pm McCain spoke with honor and integrity with knowledge and experience with conviction and passion on all topics his energy plan is to stop sending our hard earned $ to the Islamic Nations that hate us; his economic-energy plan is sound and doesn’t raise taxes- his foreign policy is strong and powerful-McCain is right for America and her people
Obama stammered, stuttered was unfocused all over the map lacking in decisiveness voted for the oil co in 2005 and has a tax increase economic plan that will sent us into recession! he is pro-choice that falls right into his Muslim doctrine kill the defenseless and innocent! he voted for the 2005 energy bill that had millions of giveaways to the oil industry. Obama is wrong for America!
the latest Obamas Muslim outreach campaign fund raising mgr. MAZEN ASBAHI a Chicago lawyer has be exposed as a co-conspirtor with JAMAL SAID in racketeering and fund raiser for HAMAS the Islamic militant militia! maybe that is how he raised 51million $ in July for his campaign
August 17, 2008 at 3:42 pm
What amazed me about Senator Obama’s whole body language, attitude and responses seemed to be coming from a place where he wold rather be than in front of Reverend Warren. Senator McCain may be 70. But experience and back ground DOES come through quite clearly in his use of personal knowledge. WHICH is the key give away. One (McCain) owns the knowledge of experience. While Obama…………..
August 17, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Pyrrhic victory. McCain gave all the “McCain Democrats” something to think about, with regard to his positions on war, poverty, and reproductive rights. How many women understood exactly what he meant when he said he thinks life begins at conception — that the citizenship of a woman ends when she conceives?
I wonder how many of those women will vote.
August 17, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Those of you who watched the forum should have noticed that Obama gave reflective, thoughtful responses to the questions, while McCain, like the guy now in office, relied on standard canned responses that came right from his stump speeches. Just as with Bush, there was no nuance to McCain’s answers: everything is right or wrong, black or white: no exceptions for special circumstances.
August 17, 2008 at 11:19 pm
No doubt McCain took this round. He was honest,
authentic, and did not dance all over the questions.
Obama is great in front of a telepromter reading
what his speech writers wrote for him that day, but when it comes to thinking on his own two feet, he loses it. Why…becaus guys he is inexperienced. He did not vote no against the Iraq war…he wasn’t even in office. And the
bi-partisan statement was wrong too. He backed
out on it with McCain, and so McCain sent a shame on you Obama letter at the time to him.
Obama is a putz.
August 17, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Obama, Junior Senator from Ill, there are a lot of things above your pay grade.
Obama, CHANGE you can believe in if you want a President who is narcissistic, specious, vacuous, and effete.
August 17, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I,m amazed by all of you who are obsessing over what Jesus would have to say about abortion?
Think back to the Ten Commandments and recall the one that says:
“Thou shalt not kill”.
August 18, 2008 at 1:23 am
I was stunned during Obama’s response,a self professed Christian, when he Stated regarding Genocide, “the First Thing We Have TO DO is BEAR WITNESS”, and the Crowd was Silent.
Silent after that statement?
August 18, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Though I agree that McCain did better than Obama, I doubt that the discussion will have much of an effect on anything. Given a choice of a religious/political discussion on a Saturday night in August, most of the relatively few people who were home watching television were tuned to the Olympics. McCain was going to get the conservative evangelical vote, anyway, though he may have boosted his credibility with the folks he once termed “agents of intolerance.” Obama may have countered the ongoing fiction that he is a Muslim, though the people stupid enough to believe that may not be able to figure out how to vote, anyway–and if they do, they weren’t going to vote for Obama.
I am a bit troubled that the candidates felt they needed to attend a church-sponsored discussion at all, a further complication of what I see as an often negative relationship between religion and presidential politics. It would bother me less if the candidates felt equally compelled to answer questions from a union leader, a state governor, the mayor of a major American city (New Orleans or New York, perhaps?), a panel of teachers and parents, and a panel of economists.
August 18, 2008 at 5:20 pm
No one watched this garbage. Americans were watching the Olympics.
American christian theocrats .. blaspheme God
August 18, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I have a question, you first wrote, “And his answers gave me the same impression – - a lot of foul balls, an occasional single, a double off the wall, but nothing hit out of the park.”
Then a few paragraphs later you wrote, “ome doubles, and the question about sanctity of life, when is a baby entitled to the rights of a human being, he hit right out of the park. Another home run on the “flip-flop” question (offshore drilling). McCain looked like a pro, unafraid of the pitches and ready to hit.”
So which is it in your mind, he hit nothing out of the park or two out of the park? Is that a flip-flop?
(just a little joke there)
August 18, 2008 at 9:27 pm
[...] A McCain Democrat’s Journal: The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 [...]
August 20, 2008 at 12:09 am
[...] Proves He’s “The One” For November Substance Triumphed Over Image At Saddleback Civil Forum The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 What’s Wrong With Barack Obama’s Abortion Position? John McCain & Barack Obama: Saddleback [...]
August 21, 2008 at 10:20 am
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August 21, 2008 at 4:59 pm
[...] The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 [...]
August 23, 2008 at 10:38 am
[...] The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 [...]
August 24, 2008 at 2:57 pm
[...] The Saddleback Forum: McCain 1, Obama 0 [...]
August 31, 2008 at 12:01 am
I don’t think I saw the same forum as the majority of you who wrote in to this. I thought McCain was horrible. All I heard was name dropping, old stories, and if he didn’t answer trigger fast, then he was off on tangents that at best skirted the questions. McCain’s analysis of our state of the union is right in line with his knowledge of his own schedule of real estate. Please God don’t put McCain’s trembling finger on the trigger.
August 31, 2008 at 6:08 am
peter: Always nice to hear from an alternate reality.
September 7, 2008 at 7:35 pm
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